FAST Open Autocross - Nov 17 - Brooksville

Discuss our SCHEDULE and future events. Friendly trash talk encouraged.

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FAST Open Autocross - Nov 17 - Brooksville

Postby Loren » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:01 pm

phpBB [media]
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Postby Blue_Heron » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:56 pm

Loren wrote:As of today, this event is half-full.

...we've bumped our registration limits to 60 drivers and 20 guests!


That will be full of awesomeness as long as we don't have to reduce the number of runs to accommodate the extra drivers.
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Postby Loren » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:30 pm

Ah, you say that... unless you're one of the ones that didn't get in before. Then it's "0 runs and zero championship points vs. 4 runs", which isn't so bad.

4 runs has always been our norm for Open events. We try to do 5 when we can. It has less to do with the number of entries, more to do with the course design (how much run overlap it allows), and with how much the drivers are slowing things down (DNF's, multiple cones, going off, and otherwise just being slow).

We've added 6 entries. That's 3 per run group. If we do 5 runs, that's 15 runs, 30 seconds each. +/- 7 minutes per run group. Encourage people to not slow the event down with their shenanigans, and we'll likely be able to do 5 runs!
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FAST Open Autocross - Nov 17 - Brooksville

Postby BigBlue » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:24 pm

Let me be the first to say it then.

NO SHENANIGANS YOU DARN WHIPPERSNAPPERS! (And stay off my lawn while you're at it!) Hur-umpf. Double hur-umpf.
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Postby markzeronine » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:32 pm

I'm with Ron and Dave!
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Postby jbrannon7 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:28 am

Map?
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Postby Loren » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:35 am

jbrannon7 wrote:Map?
I've got to make one final edit and I don't have time to do it right now. So, it will be super-late tonight.
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Postby Jamie » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:24 pm

BigBlue wrote:NO SHENANIGANS YOU DARN WHIPPERSNAPPERS! (And stay off my lawn while you're at it!) Hur-umpf. Double hur-umpf.
Wait...I've seen your house. You have a lawn? :headscratch:
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Postby twistedwankel » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:05 pm

Blue_Heron wrote:That will be full of awesomeness as long as we don't have to reduce the number of runs to accommodate the extra drivers.
In my FL memory the number of runs has normally been determined by how long a human can run after cones in 90F heat. No more than 1.5hrs the very limit. Less is better.
Think about it. If we had one event of 75 divided into 3 run groups of 25 you aren't going to get more than 4 runs as that's 100 minutes. You will ONLY get 5 if the course is laid out to release a car every 20 seconds and no one screws up. At least every group gets to rest/hydrate before driving that way.

With 50 drivers running in two heats like we do now the bad part is the 1st heat workers have very little time to rest/hydrate before driving. BIG disadvantage for cone chasers in the 2nd heat.

With 60 drivers 3 heats of 20 cars is actually doable giving each group a chance to rest before driving. That is awesome. Also provides more time for chatting each other up in the shade.
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Postby Native » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:29 pm

Y'all watch M4 at this one. Gonna be some serious competition...
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Postby Loren » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:43 pm

Here's the map.

Hi-Res PDF Course Map

Image
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Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Postby Loren » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:26 am

twistedwankel wrote:With 60 drivers 3 heats of 20 cars is actually doable giving each group a chance to rest before driving. That is awesome. Also provides more time for chatting each other up in the shade.
We're not planning on splitting our Open events into 3 heats of 20 per session. You've touched on some of the reasons why we might or might not want to. This gets wordy, but if you want do understand why we do things the way we do, read on.

Course Work - 90 minutes is the absolute max, but we don't like to do the max except for occasional special events, preferably not in the heat of summer. Normally, we try to cap it at about 70-75 minutes. Just a little over an hour if we can.

The other thing we do at an Open event is limit it to two run groups to avoid the second worker change between groups 2 and 3. A worker change kills 15-20 minutes easily. 20 minutes = 40+ runs! You want to commit to 4 runs EVERY time? Sure, we could break into 3 groups. We're not going to do that for Open events. We usually do for Classic events... and that's part of the "Classic vibe".

Doing 3 groups is cool, it does allow for some casual "social time" and more ride-alongs and such. But, in addition to costing us some group-change time, it also gives us a smaller grid. 20 cars on the grid, that means a max of about 10 minutes between runs. And if you're in a 2-driver car, which we get a lot of, it's no more than 5 minutes between runs. Makes for a hectic grid. With our previous 54-driver limit, a full event gives us a 27-car grid. More like 13 minutes between runs, and 6.5 minutes for a 2-driver car. I little less frantic. Going to 60 drivers and a 30-car grid just pads that time a little more. More time for drivers to check their times, tire pressures, engine oil, busted exhaust valves, arrange to ride with other drivers, etc.

And if we had a 30-second start interval, 5 runs for 30 cars = 75 minutes. Right on the mark. We usually strive for about a 25-28 second start interval. Even better.

One more thing that a lot of people who aren't me don't think about. It hasn't happened in a while, but there are those occasions where we have had a 40 driver session at an Open event. That gives us the smaller 20 car grid, which requires a lot of hustle from the drivers to keep up. But, the other aspect is... now we have a pool of 20 workers to work the other group! Sounds like plenty, but take away 2 for timing, 2 for grid, 1 for start, and at least two for setup, tech or registration. Now you're down to 12. 6 worker stations... you've got just enough. Now, throw in the novices and first-timers that we often get at an Open event. You're going to need some instructors! Now you're short course workers, or at least short experienced corner captains. If we did 3 groups of 20... that would be a CONSTANT problem. 30-car groups? Easy peasy! Extra people to handle instructing, extra workers, people to do teardown, etc. I even added a 7th worker station on the course for this event because I knew we could cover it.

So... yeah. Gonna stick with the "FAST Open" plan. Two Sessions. Two run groups per session. 30-car groups. (less the inevitable no-shows)
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Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Postby jbrannon7 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:33 am

I think station 1 and 7 are going to be busy, and 7 needs to be very alert.
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Postby Loren » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:59 am

1 shouldn't be as bad as it looks. It's 50-foot spaced, yes. But, it's very easy offset. Just a wiggle.

7... first runs will be messy. Once people realize how much they need to brake and where, it should settle down. You're likely going to need to be braking and initiating turn-in at least 50 feet before the end of that walled straight.
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Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Postby twistedwankel » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:33 am

Loren wrote: It hasn't happened in a while, but there are those occasions where we have had a 40 driver session at an Open event.
Yep. If it weren't for the many FN stay overs we'd be pretty SOL for workers in the late sessions sometimes.
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Postby nathanwilliams617 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:34 am

twistedwankel wrote:
Loren wrote: It hasn't happened in a while, but there are those occasions where we have had a 40 driver session at an Open event.
Yep. If it weren't for the many FN stay overs we'd be pretty SOL for workers in the late sessions sometimes.
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Postby twistedwankel » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:38 am

jbrannon7 wrote:I think station 1 and 7 are going to be busy, and 7 needs to be very alert.
Not for me. I don't hit cones because it's: "the objective". This course looks very Vette friendly to me on my old dying skinny RE71's that squeal like 4 pigs on a hog :lol:
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Postby Evil MS3 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:14 pm

jaball77 wrote:Going to miss this one, sadly. The kiddo's birthday party takes precedence!
This means I might have a shot at another S4 sticker. :chuckle: :chuckle:
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Postby Magooiii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:35 pm

There is now an afternoon opening get it FAST.
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Postby Loren » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:41 am

Yeah, that one didn't last too long!

But, now there's been an Early cancel. If anyone needs to get in, or wants to flip to the Early Session, go get it!
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