Loren's V8 S10

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Loren's V8 S10

Postby Native » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:09 pm

Gotta love it when a shot-in-the-dark works out!
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby Loren » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:27 pm

Having a static picture of things doesn't address my though process as to what I changed and why, though. That's the biggest reason why I discuss things like this here on the forum. It's a form of documentation.

I have my current MS tune file, I can look at it and see where I am. And MS keeps restore points (which I've never looked at), so I could potentially go back in time and look at how things were at a certain point. But, again, for any of that to be valuable, I'd need notes, documentation, data logs taken with a particular setup... something to give meaning to those settings.

Bottom line is that I'm really bad at documenting what is usually a "stream of consciousness" process for me. If I stick with it and continue tuning until I'm "done", it's not a problem. It's when I take breaks that I lose continuity.

Doing things "right" just takes a lot more time. Ideally, I'd have a notebook and take notes on every change that I make, and I wouldn't change more than one thing at a time. That just seems too much like work!
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The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
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Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby blacksheep-1 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:09 pm

Plan..
1. throw an extra quart of oil in it
2. Send it
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby Loren » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:17 pm

I've already thrown 1.5 quarts of extra oil at it. It still drops oil pressure under really hard braking.

I suspect that eventually, I will send it. Unless I sell it first.

It really does have a lot of potential.
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Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby Loren » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:45 pm

Couple more days of tuning this week. Was getting persistent backfires (not just the occasional lean pop, but legit backfires) on deceleration that I couldn't figure out. Nothing seemed to have an effect. Turns out, it was just too much light-throttle timing advance.

I went back and completely redid my timing table (again) from scratched based on what I've learned, and on what the Megamanual says. Basically, the manual says to set the 100kPa (full throttle) timing so that it's "all in" by 3000 rpm, and it gives some broad guidelines as to what max timing should be for various types of engines. According to that info (and just general car-guy wisdom), my engine should need peak advance of about 30-33 degrees. And this jives more or less with the info I got from Nate from a stock GM tune. So, that's where I'd previously started. From there, it says to advance the timing .3 degrees per kPa as the load decreases. (less kPa = more vacuum = less load) And that's what I'd done to start with... sort of blending that with the "trends" seen on Nate's map. And it worked... up to a point. But, I couldn't get rid of those backfires!

So, today, I went into medieval test mode to check something. When I was on my stock ECU and looked at timing on the OBD scanner, it was ALWAYS right around 20-21 degrees. I thought it was broken. Made no sense to me. Timing never went past about 21 degrees. So, I set the whole timing table to 20 degrees. No backfires! No stumbles on acceleration, either... even though the fuel was nowhere near optimized for that timing.

So, I completely redrew my timing map (again) with peak high-load advance at 22 degrees. And the idle is generally happy at around 14 degrees, so that's my low end. Timing ramps up from 14 to 22 degrees, and stays there. The engine tends to cruise (and idle) in the 45-55 kPa area, so I kept the advance at 22 degrees max in that area. 40 kPa and below, I let it ramp up to 25 degrees and no more. Went and did some autotuning on that, and it's not bad. Very civilized, reasonable power and response, and no backfires.

I'm just making the slow realization that the timing requirements of this engine are NOTHING like anything else I've ever tuned, and apparently also a bit different from a typical Vortec V8. Being bored and stroked with unknown porting and polishing, larger valves, unkown camshafts, and who knows if the cam timing is even correct... this is all trial and error. Just a matter of finding out what works.

I'm about ready to take it to an exhaust shop, though. I can't tell if the engine is pinging under high load because the exhaust note gets so gnarly when you get on it. Idling around (which you can EASILY do in this thing), it purrs like a kitten. And it's really not absurdly loud at all... just loud enough that I can't hear what I want to hear with the engine during the tuning process.

Another thing I did yesterday. I'd already used the "table switching" feature on the timing table to give me more resolution on the timing map because it's been giving me such fits. I went ahead and did the same with the fuel table. The way I have the truck geared, and the way it has so much low-end, I spend a lot of time between 900 and 2500 rpm. With a 16 column table, I could only devote maybe 3-4 columns to that area. Using table-switching to switch to a second table over 2600 rpm, now I have 16 columns available for idle to 2600 rpm. Allows for much more accurate fuel control in that "daily driving" area.

Getting closer.

And I got the cold start fuel settings a little better. It's less finicky to start (will never be "good" until I put some kind of idle air controller on it). Ran autotune on the warm-up enrichment and improved that, as well.

Now that I have two fuel tables... I spent some time this afternoon driving around below 2500 rpm to hone in the low-RPM fuel table. Now I need to do the same on the high-RPM fuel table.

But, first, I'm going to do something I should have done months ago. I ordered a new set of spark plugs. Will be interesting to see how trashed my plugs are with all of the crazy abuse I've put them through.
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby twistedwankel » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:53 pm

Loren wrote:But, first, I'm going to do something I should have done months ago. I ordered a new set of spark plugs.
Yep I've got a set of those sitting in the drawer of my tool box for the Ford. Sure I'll get to it:) Go Loren. This is interesting stuff.
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby Loren » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:13 pm

New spark plugs are still sitting on my kitchen table.

But, I did at least start the truck today. Warmed it up, drove it around a little bit.
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby Loren » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:09 pm

Those new spark plugs are STILL on the kitchen table.

I've completely lost interest in this project, not that I had a whole lot of it to begin with. (I really just wanted a "driver", and buying this truck was a poor decision on my part)

Once I decide I can afford to make a car payment, I'll likely be trading this thing in on whatever I opt to buy. So, if you have any interest in it at all... talk to me. It's got worlds of potential, just needs a motivated wrench. (or even just a motivated tuner to finish tuning the Megasquirt)
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby Native » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:43 pm

Spark plugs on the table.
:notworthy:
Singing my song...
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby twistedwankel » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:51 pm

BOGO?
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Postby Loren » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:55 pm

What, you want the Mirage AND the truck? I'm your Huckleberry. :lol:
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The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
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Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Postby twistedwankel » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:52 am

I know what a Dingleberry is. I worked for one. What Is a Huckleberry. Should I pick one?
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Postby Loren » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:59 am

I always thought it was a reference to Tom Sawyer. But, there are a couple other possibilities.

I'm your Huckleberry. I'm your man. I'm here for you. Buy my damned truck.
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby Native » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:51 am

phpBB [media]
Steven Frank
Class M3 Miata
Proud disciple of the "Push Harder, Suck Less" School of Autocross
______________
I'll get to it. Eventually...
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby twistedwankel » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:55 pm

No AC sucks big time. Oil light on acceleration sucks/dangerous. Having to use a laptop to make it run sucks even more. Not a geek. Back to carb. Dry sump?
So what do you think the Dealer will give you? They offered $3500 for wife's pristine C5 2 years ago against two different Rams (one bent) which I sold in my front yard for $10k in 2 days.

We talking your "trade in price" with no air and red oil light? Their Offer will be no more than a trade in for a 2000 Vette for sure. Assuming my wife can climb into it? Another story about her falling off the step stool they provided that totally killed any deal. :smack:

Huckleberry Finn?
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Postby Loren » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:00 pm

The oil pressure dips under hard braking, not acceleration. Don't autocross it, it'll be fine!

I don't know what they'd give me for it in trade. But, I'm getting to the point that I don't care. I don't keep driveway ornaments. If I'm not driving it, and I don't want to tinker with it, it needs to go.
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby Loren » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:51 pm

Just took the truck out for a quick blat. Part of me wants to love the thing. In spite of its vague steering and cheap tires, it actually handles very well!

But, for now... at least I've circulated the fluids and knocked the rust off of the brake rotors.
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Postby blacksheep-1 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:12 pm

UUHHHMMM LS engines have a real bad habit of oil starvation, in IMSA they were forced to go to dry sumps after their first year and everything in PWC is dry sump. Phoenix, who have built countless Corvettes, still has one go south occasionally, so don't mess with that..I'll try to find a more definitive answer for you.
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Postby Loren » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:28 pm

This is not an LS, it's an L31. The last generation of the old school cast iron 350. I have no intention of taking it apart to "fix" any problem it might have that's not keeping it from running. It's a fine setup for street use. If someone wanted to seriously track or autocross it, then they might want to address the oil slosh issue. I've decided that I don't want to be that person. (even thought I've probably got it 85% of the way there with the suspension and a 2nd gear that will hit 70 mph)
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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Loren's V8 S10

Postby blacksheep-1 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:24 pm

LS1..L31.. this is what happens when I don't have my glasses

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