The Massive Evo That Couldn't

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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby CaptainSquirts » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:36 pm

Additional pictures.
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20180606_183021.jpg
Old plate
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby Loren » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:48 pm

:lust:
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The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
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Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby CaptainSquirts » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:15 am

So I got the control arms, camber plates installed and aligned the front back to normal.

Tl;dr - PITA to get the control arms back in.
Putting the control arms back in was a PITA. The rear bushings wouldn't go in between the metal slot where you would bolt it down. I had to basically Jeremy Clarkson it and use a hammer to widen the space to fit the control arm in where the new bushings are. Once the rear bushing got in where they needed to be, the control arm where the front bushing is wouldn't slide into the area where it bolts into. I'm assuming the offset made this a lot harder compared to no offset. I had to hammer some more stuff to get that fitted. Basically was like that for both sides. Also had one problem with one ball joint getting the bolt to slide in freely when the ball joint stud is attached to the knuckle. For some reason the little crevice wasn't lined up 100% so it had a very small lip. It would require me to spin the stud a very very small amount but that sucker would not spin. I basically hammered the ball joint bolt to in very slowly, pulled it back out to see if it was stripping any threads and it did a very very small amount so I yolo'd it and tapped it in. Seems like it worked fine and was able to attach the nut onto the ball joint bolt(wouldn't recommend that method to anyone but didn't know of a way to spin the balljoint stud slightly?)

Anyways After everything was all good and installed, I went to aligning the front. I fixed the camber to about what I had previously, -3.5ish. I measured the toe and surprisingly it measured to about 0 toe. Drove it and it was pretty damn straight which was surprising also, but when I turn right I was getting a little grind metallic sound. Check everything under and the brake line bracket was rubbing. My camber plate was at the most positive position so I had to adjust the strut camber bolt and pull the strut out to get it more positive and then adjust the camber plate a little to get it back to where I wanted it. Brake line bracket no longer rubbed. But toe was jacked up now. After messing with toe for a while seemed to be pretty straight when driving and and a small dab or toe out.

Driving impressions
I couldn't tell the ride was any harsh than it already is, but I do hear a clunk on the front somewhere when I back out of my driveway, not sure what that is.
On the road, nothing abnormal, steering doesn't feel that much more heavy at all. A better test will probably be the next autocross event. Prior to changes I always noticed I would get a very tad amount of tirewall rub when the car required a lot of steering angle, hopefully this will negate some of that with the added caster.
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby Loren » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:36 am

One of the things you can do to try to locate contact points and noises would be to put the car up on jack stands, and then put your jack under the end of the control arm (at the ball joint). Then you can run the suspension through not all, but a lot of its range of motion. And you can turn the wheel all the way in both directions at full droop and "mostly" full compression.

The only way to really jack it up to full compression would be to take out the spring. If you think you're having a problem in that area, maybe it might be worth doing?

As hard as it was to assemble, you could end up with some creaking in those control arm bushings. Otherwise, I'd just keep a really close eye on that brake hose. Maybe use some zip ties to create some additional clearance?
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The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby CaptainSquirts » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:16 am

Loren wrote:One of the things you can do to try to locate contact points and noises would be to put the car up on jack stands, and then put your jack under the end of the control arm (at the ball joint). Then you can run the suspension through not all, but a lot of its range of motion. And you can turn the wheel all the way in both directions at full droop and "mostly" full compression.
Good idea :thumbwink:
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby Native » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:07 pm

An even-more-better Evo. Sweet. 8-)
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby CaptainSquirts » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:23 pm

Things I've learned from the last event I just ran.

1. When I have a lot of steering angle at the turn around, the tire rolls over more and more even when running 38psi with over -3.5 camber. Thought caster would help alleviate it but I feel it didn't. It did feel like it gripped more than usual but maybe placebo.

2. I need to have the car almost or is 4 wheel sliding to be going fast. I'll link video to bottom if anyone even cares. But Basically the right hander after the cross over(basically anywhere that had mid speed sweepers), the car would 4 wheel slide when at the limit maybe even over the limit and I would gas when the car was at the angle I wanted it to be to hold the rear in place. When I didn't have that 4 wheel sliding going on my times just suffered.

3. I have low speed understeer, but when being over driven. I'm not sure if having the car act more neutral like in the mid speed sections would be better. Maybe someone could have insight about this. Maybe try stiffening the rear a little bit more? But I don't want to hurt how it acts in the mid speed sweepers, I like how that feels.

Adding caster didn't really make the steering feel a lot more heavy than people make it out to be. Couldn't tell you if it made the car faster since I'm not consistent enough.

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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby Native » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:32 pm

CaptainSquirts wrote:tire rolls over more and more even when running 38psi with over -3.5 camber.
Try 42-45 pounds? Took that much in Bill's VW to stop roll-over.

As for #3, yeah, from what you wrote, it sounds like the back isn't loose enough relative to the front - makes you understeer if too slow, and have to slide both ends a lot when faster to get the car to turn. So, maybe more front grip (softer), or less rear grip (harder) - reduce slow-speed understeer, and get more rotation if faster. OTOH, if you like the way the car feels with "mid-speed" stuff, leave it be and learn to cope with the extremes. Suspension setup is gonna be some sort of compromise.
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby CaptainSquirts » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:47 pm

Native wrote:Try 42-45 pounds? Took that much in Bill's VW to stop roll-over.
Is that with the re-71s?
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby Native » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:58 pm

yup
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby CaptainSquirts » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:02 pm

Jesus, I guess i'll have to try adding more pressure.
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby CaptainSquirts » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:49 pm

So I had an issue with having to preload my helper springs a ton because I didn't have enough thread from the coilover lowering mount and the damper body itself. But after some back and forth with my coilover company they have a fork at the bottom of the lowering perch that is a good 3 inches taller. This would allow me to have my helper at full droop if it needed to. So basically with the fork mount, it need to be 5mm wider at the bottom for where it connects to the control arm and the hole the bolt that goes through it at the fork park need to be slightly a larger to fit the bolt through. I don't weld or anything so I thought about a machine shop. One near my house will make the fork 5mm wider on both for 100 bucks.

So thoughts if that is suffice enough or should I go a different route like maybe having Joe B do it if he is able to do it? Probably be a lot cheaper I would think. Or any other option? I feel 100 is a little steep but for the cost of having it done once and right then of course it would be worth it.
Attachments
lowering mounts.PNG
Smaller one is what the evo one normally uses and the taller one is the one I need modded
lowering mounts.PNG (34.02 KiB) Viewed 2591 times
20180619_215828_resized.jpg
New fork
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby Loren » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:04 pm

Wait... soooo... they sold you a part that's longer, but it doesn't fit your car?

Couldn't you have just modified the one that you already had? I mean, if you have to modify, anyway?

Making that shaft longer actually looks like it would be easier than remaking the U part wider. Get a piece of tube with the inner diameter that fits the OD of the shaft. Cut, fit, weld.
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The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby CaptainSquirts » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:17 pm

Yea honestly I don't know jack about welding and what you can do. I didn't think about just modding the current one. To me just widening the u joint part very slightly would've been the easiest route but I guess not.
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby Loren » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:42 pm

I guess maybe you could spread the arms of the U out by 5mm. Sort of depends on what it fits around and what kind of tolerance is there.

Joe does have a hydraulic press. I would expect you'd have to wedge something in there to spread the arms apart, and then press them back together with something of the correct thickness in the middle to get everything straight again. Then you'd have to verify that the bolt hole is straight enough.
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
Daniel Dejon
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby CaptainSquirts » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:53 pm

So my helper springs at max could only be about 1.5 inches long out of the 2.4 inches it has. Reason was due to lowering perch didn't have enough threading left for the shock body so I had to have the car lower in the rear than intended.

So I got different mounts for the lowering perch that is 3 inches longer. It did have to have some weld work for extend the Y part by 5mm and the bolt hole a tad bigger for fit current bolt that connects to it. With this, I am able to raise the rear from the lowering perch since I have a lot more threading connected to the mount.

Now I'm able to have the helper spring use all of its springy goodness it has. It was 1.5 inches when fully extended and now has 2.3inches (little preload added). So I get about a good 1.4 inches extra drop at the wheel so I should have about 3.8 inches of droop from the helper itself now. Plus I raised the rear 0.5 inches so that hopefully helped the rear bumpsteer a little.
Attachments
20180721_164044.jpg
Current mount setup
20180721_165815.jpg
New mount on right and old on left.
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby CaptainSquirts » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:58 pm

New mount installed.
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20180721_191312.jpg
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby Loren » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:32 pm

Dunno about bump steer, but the added droop travel should keep you from lifting an inside tire and perhaps save your axles and rear diff... right?
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby CaptainSquirts » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:35 pm

I stiffened the rear sway bar for the dog track and I was getting some big wheel lifting. This should at least solve that.
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The Massive Evo That Couldn't

Postby CaptainSquirts » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:43 am

Didn't want to make a new thread about a simple question. But when going over a bump, I can visualize the main spring/damper compressing a little, but what happens if you go in a dip or coming back down from a bump? Since I'm running a dual spring setup, the helper is compressed at static or going over a bump. When going into a dip or back down from a bump, will the helper expand a little when dropping down or is it all the main spring thats rebounding, or a little of both?

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