"Kart" cars in M0?

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"Kart" cars in M0?

Postby Loren » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:53 am

Okay, it's about time we addressed the issue of building "kart" cars. That's where you take a car (often an old Miata or Vette), and cut most of the body off of it to make it very lightweight, and race that mofo!

Yes, we're talking about the one that Aaron, Andrew and Ken built. But, also... anyone else who might be thinking about building one. Because it's cheap and easy to do. Why wouldn't you think about it? Take a $500 car, go after it with a sawzall and a welder. Set FTD. :thumbwink:

Several of us were watching said Miata cart run today and thinking about whether it belonged in M0. And I looked at the rules, which is something I don't often do. (I leave it up to the competitor to know the rules of their class)

If you're thinking about building such a car to run in on street tires in FAST M0, here's the thing. And it's really the only thing. The preamble to the FAST Modified rules page: (emphasis added)
Da Rules wrote:If your car does not meet all of the Stock Category qualifications, you may qualify for the Modified Category. The Modified Category is intended for modified, but streetable cars on street tires.

Qualifications for the Modified Category are minimal:
  • Tires must be treadwear 140 or greater.
  • Cars must be street legal in the State of Florida, but registration and insurance is not required.
  • The intent of this category (except Open Modified) is that cars should not be so extensively modified that they could not be returned to stock. In general, cutting & welding is bad, bolt-on stuff is good; looking like a stripped race car is bad, looking like a complete street car is good.
That's all been in there for years. Nothing new. "Streetable" is a requirement. And "Streetable" is defined specifically as street legal in the state of Florida.

We can jump down a bit and look specifically at Mod 0:
Da Rules wrote:M0 (Open Modified) Rules
The Open Modified class (M0) is for exotic cars, and cars that exceed any of the above limits, but are otherwise street legal and on street tires. Cars that bump up from M1 also go to M0. For safety, doors, hood and a complete firewall are required for ALL Modified cars.

Tube frame and kit cars are allowed in Open Modified provided they have a minimum of two seats, are fully street legal, and meet all safety requirements.
Running M0 can exempt you from a lot of the other Mod Class rules and limitations. But, it clearly states that doors, hood and firewall are required, and there's still that pesky bit about "fully street legal".

So, I'm not sure where things went off in the planning of building the "death kart" in question, or if there was enough planning involved. I know I was asked a few questions. Specifically about doors and hood. I gave a pass on doors, as there are good door bars, which renders it equivalent to most streetable kit cars, like an Exocet or Stalker.

Things that make it not street legal:
  • Lack of a windshield. This was one of the first things that was hacked off of the car, and I don't recall ever being asked about it. State of FL requires windshield wipers... which implies a windshield. I'd almost give a pass on that, as long as everyone wears a full face helmet. Sort of as you would in an Exocet. But, it's iffy. If the intent was to run M0, keeping the windshield would have made sense.
  • State of Florida requires lights and horn. That's headlights, tail lights, brake lights and turn signals. This car has none of the above.
  • That's about it, really. It has seatbelts, proper exhaust, etc. Aside from those things, it could probably be tagged and insured as a "home built kit car".
There was a big production of the initial safety inspection of this car, and "should it be allowed to run". But, nobody ever asked "is it okay for M0", and apparently nobody bothered to read the rules. If y'all are planning on keeping this car in M0, it needs to be made street legal. Otherwise, it should be in R1, with anything else that's a non-road legal race car.

Back to speaking in general terms, can you build a "kart" type vehicle that would be eligible for M0? Absolutely! It just takes a little research and planning before breaking out the cutting tools, and maybe a little retrofitting of equipment after that.

Before I read the rules today, I was thinking that maybe they were a little more vague than they are. But, no. We thought this through when we wrote the "M0" concept into the rules. It's pretty well covered, and very simply.

Discuss. 8-) Or don't. :dunno:
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"Kart" cars in M0?

Postby ImpostorDan » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:07 am

Sweet loving, when do I pick up my sticker?
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"Kart" cars in M0?

Postby CaptainSquirts » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:51 am

ImpostorDan wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:07 am
Sweet loving, when do I pick up my sticker?
LOL, took me a minute to get what this meant.
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"Kart" cars in M0?

Postby Loren » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:03 am

ImpostorDan wrote:Sweet loving, when do I pick up my sticker?
You failed to protest before the end of the event. (or at all) No sticker for you! :grin:

But, perhaps more stickers in the future? Or maybe they'll do what they need to do to keep the car in M0? (but, then it would be soooo heavy, you'd probably win, anyway)
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"Kart" cars in M0?

Postby Jamie » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:40 pm

Loren wrote:If y'all are planning on keeping this car in M0, it needs to be made street legal. Otherwise, it should be in R1, with anything else that's a non-road legal race car.
R1 says, "Any streetable car on race tires...." Need to fix that if you want to push non-street legal stuff into R1. And strictly speaking, we've allowed those before (i.e., Jay Stannard's Formula Ford).
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"Kart" cars in M0?

Postby Loren » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:08 pm

Good point. ^^^

Remind us of that when we ask for rule change input at the end of the season.
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"Kart" cars in M0?

Postby ImpostorDan » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:37 pm

Loren wrote:
ImpostorDan wrote:Sweet loving, when do I pick up my sticker?
You failed to protest before the end of the event. (or at all) No sticker for you! :grin:
Joke's on you, I still get a sticker... Just a sucky one.
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"Kart" cars in M0?

Postby Loren » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:39 pm

I remember the days you were just happy to get a single POINT, much less a sucky sticker. :P
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"Kart" cars in M0?

Postby AScoda » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:47 pm

There was brief discussion about these very things in another thread. My conclusions were that if we told the 'A"s that they need to put xyz back on the car, they probably would and if we told them that they need to run R1, they probably would without complaint.
Regarding "streetable"--I think we do need to have a class that allows non street legal things. As Jamie mentioned, in addition to Jay Stannard's formula ford, Les Davis has one also and might bring it back out one day, or sell it to someone who will.
R1 is that place IMHO.
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"Kart" cars in M0?

Postby ImpostorDan » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:26 pm

Loren wrote:I remember the days you were just happy to get a single POINT, much less a sucky sticker. :P
Correction - I was happy to get a second point - cause you always got one for showing up regardless of how hard you hoovered.

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